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Thread: ANy way to fix crisis?

  1. #1
    Colonel Pj Fallon's Avatar
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    ANy way to fix crisis?

    Crisises have ruined this game. Just lost the great war (germany, Uk, Austraia hun vs Russia (me), France, usa, scandianvia,) and within two years another crisis and my army has been reduced to25% due to great war capitulation. ALso if the country breaks free I lose my cores on it.

    ANy way to fix crisis? I dont see nothing in the mod forum.
    East vs. West is cancelled. Will we ever get a cold war game?

  2. #2
    Captain Daffius's Avatar
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    You know, many people would give an arm and a leg to have such a challenge, right?

    Anyway, do you want to 'fix crises' as modding it out, or knowing how to deal with it? If the earlier, then you might want to post this question on the mods sub forum. If the later then, there area few things you can do:
    - Keep good relations with the No1 powers, when asked to back the crises, back-it. Once GP1 (and GP2) joins you the other side usually yields
    - The opposite as well, you can check who will back who in a crises, try joining the winning side
    - Know when to stop and fight another day. I mean you are 25% down, paying reparations possibly, not ready for a fight against the major powers... maybe, just maybe, you are not in a position to extend for your cores.
    - You can still have other allies that could cause problems; in the above case eg: Italy, Spain, Turkey. Ally them. They won't hold their ground but can cause enough deflection for you to stay alive

    There possibly others I'm missing and it's a lot more if the crises is on your territory. Overall it can create the late game challenge many have been craving for.

    Crises is in fact broken, but in another way.

    Greece - "I want to break free, who will support me?"
    UK - "Don't worry Greece, I'm behind you and allied with Germany. We'll crush them Turks in no time"
    Turkey - "Help, Greece wants to break free and UK is supporting. Someone?"
    Silence
    Turkey - "Anyone there?"
    Silence
    UK - "Sorry Greece, we would have backed your claim, but it seems no one is supporting Turkey. We are only willing to fight if we can fight at least another great power at the same time."
    Greece - "Huh?"

  3. #3
    There was a thread from some guy who was playing as the Ottomans and he sphered the Greeks. Greek crises continued to fire, but no one was willing to support someone else's sphereling. Unfortunately, this only works if the troublemaker is already independent.

    Failing that, a crisis cannot fire against you if you are at war. A gamey solution is to pick a fight with some nobody like Abu Dhabi and let the war drag out for as long as you need it to. If you're lucky, some South American country might have defaulted on their debts recently; that's not only a free Casus Belli, but it is RP-sensitive as well.

    The cheating way is to edit the save files (find the "tension" value, or whatever it is caused, and reset it to 0), but this will only buy you time. Once the Crisis Manager fixates on a particular region, nothing short of a war will stop it.

    The mod way would probably have to be similar to the cheating way, but with an event that automatically lowers flashpoint tension. Inside the events folder, there's a file called crisis that has those few events that randomly raise tension in the area that the Crisis Manager has fixated on, you should be able to use those events as a model to create one that constantly fires, resetting flashpoint tension to 0. This won't "fix" the system, but it will make it effectively disappear by perpetually stalling out whatever crisis is in development.

    The system itself cannot be modded, that I know of, it is pure RNG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daffius View Post
    You know, many people would give an arm and a leg to have such a challenge, right?
    There is nothing prohibiting players of Victoria 2--or any game for that matter--from severing any or all of their limbs, if they feel that such an altered anatomy will render their gaming experience more satisfying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daffius View Post
    Crises is in fact broken, but in another way.

    Greece - "I want to break free, who will support me?"
    UK - "Don't worry Greece, I'm behind you and allied with Germany. We'll crush them Turks in no time"
    Turkey - "Help, Greece wants to break free and UK is supporting. Someone?"
    Silence
    Turkey - "Anyone there?"
    Silence
    UK - "Sorry Greece, we would have backed your claim, but it seems no one is supporting Turkey. We are only willing to fight if we can fight at least another great power at the same time."
    Greece - "Huh?"
    It's called the "Crisis System" not the "Free Clay for Greece System" or "Infinite Free Casus Bellis and Prestige for the British System." The fact that it doesn't just hand Greek players a "unification free" card is the system working properly.

    The problem with the system is that it cuts players out of the loop. None of the in game actions of a player affect the development of a crisis in an appreciable way. Suppressing liberation movements or fighting rebels doesn't make a difference. The only "choice" the player gets in these matters is whether to take prestige hits, or accelerate the appearance of the crisis by a week or so.
    And if the player isn't a Great Power, they don't even get to participate in the negotiations. The AI will just hand itself whatever land it wants, leaving only cheating or gamey methods as the only recourse against the RNG. It is a broken system. If it makes the game more "difficult" it only does so in the same way that blindfolding yourself and playing by sense of hearing would make the game more "difficult."

  4. #4
    Shameless Aston Villa fan. sgt.stickybomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuzz View Post
    The problem with the system is that it cuts players out of the loop. None of the in game actions of a player affect the development of a crisis in an appreciable way. Suppressing liberation movements or fighting rebels doesn't make a difference. The only "choice" the player gets in these matters is whether to take prestige hits, or accelerate the appearance of the crisis by a week or so.
    And if the player isn't a Great Power, they don't even get to participate in the negotiations. The AI will just hand itself whatever land it wants, leaving only cheating or gamey methods as the only recourse against the RNG. It is a broken system. If it makes the game more "difficult" it only does so in the same way that blindfolding yourself and playing by sense of hearing would make the game more "difficult."
    You hit the nail on the head, the system doesn't allow a minor to reject whatever the GPs agreed upon and fight the war by itself.
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  5. #5
    Sergeant Aedelvice's Avatar
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    That's kinda how 1800s diplomacy was though, to be honest. Think about the existence of Israel; Britain decided it owned Palestine and didn't really feel any need to consult with the Palestinians. Suddenly Israel is a thing and the native Palestinians are a little bit confused.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sgt.stickybomb View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, the system doesn't allow a minor to reject whatever the GPs agreed upon and fight the war by itself.
    Considering that crisis can only occur against a GP, why would a minor ever reject a peaceful resolution of a crisis giving it some cores back? Also why would a minor want to fight a GP by itself if the GPs agree on a peaceful resolution(white peace or otherwise)? If you want to fight a GP on your own as a minor simply declare war, problem solved.

  7. #7
    Shameless Aston Villa fan. sgt.stickybomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl Raider View Post
    Considering that crisis can only occur against a GP, why would a minor ever reject a peaceful resolution of a crisis giving it some cores back? Also why would a minor want to fight a GP by itself if the GPs agree on a peaceful resolution(white peace or otherwise)? If you want to fight a GP on your own as a minor simply declare war, problem solved.
    what If there is a crisis and your GP sponsor agrees to give your cores away to another nation?
    “Napalm sticks to kids” is *not* a motivational phrase.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sgt.stickybomb View Post
    what If there is a crisis and your GP sponsor agrees to give your cores away to another nation?
    This is simply impossible. If you're a GP yourself than you're the one in charge of the negotiations, if you aren't than a crisis can't start against you.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Owl Raider View Post
    This is simply impossible. If you're a GP yourself than you're the one in charge of the negotiations, if you aren't than a crisis can't start against you.
    That is not true.
    I don't think it is possible for a Great Power to be the attacking party in a crisis (for example, if Italy forms through the Crown in the Gutter event and becomes a Great Power, it won't get crisis against Austria), but non-Great powers are the most common crisis targets (and by non-Great Powers, I mean the Ottomans).

    I've been a secondary or lesser power and hit with a crisis before. You aren't included in the negotiations at all, and if your "ally" folds, your lands are just handed off.

  10. #10
    On Double Secret Probation Comradebot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuzz View Post
    That is not true.
    I don't think it is possible for a Great Power to be the attacking party in a crisis (for example, if Italy forms through the Crown in the Gutter event and becomes a Great Power, it won't get crisis against Austria), but non-Great powers are the most common crisis targets (and by non-Great Powers, I mean the Ottomans).

    I've been a secondary or lesser power and hit with a crisis before. You aren't included in the negotiations at all, and if your "ally" folds, your lands are just handed off.
    Just backing you up.

    It's incredibly common to see the Ottomans, post-falling from GP status, get hit with a crisis. And it's honestly super annoying, because then it will require both sides to have a GP back them up in order for the crisis to continue. The result tends to be a "crisis" starting over the same chunk of Greece over and over and over and over again, but at most only one side gets championed by a GP and the crisis doesn't resolve, in the process continuing to clog up the works (so to speak) preventing other potential crises from arising.

    It's really my only problem with the crisis system. When GPs are actually actively getting involved in them, they're interesting. But when it's a pair of secondary/lesser powers, they often just don't give a crap and it'll serve to prevent crises that actually might have an effect on them from ever firing.


    And when you ARE a GP.... well: if it doesn't directly effect you or you don't feel there's much to gain, there's no reason for you to champion a side. Instead, just sit back and see which side looks like it'll win and go with them. And if you absolutely can't fight another Great War following losing one? Take the prestige hit and ignore the crisis. And if the crises are directing you directly? Well, clearly you didn't keep that militancy down and in the future it might be better to simply create a satellite nation rather than bring the world down on your head.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Comradebot View Post
    And if the crises are directing you directly? Well, clearly you didn't keep that militancy down and in the future it might be better to simply create a satellite nation rather than bring the world down on your head.
    That would be true if the crisis system weren't completely solipsistic.
    In one of my Japan games, I got hit with a crisis over Korea during the couple years between becoming civilized and becoming a GP. The Korean states had a militancy of ~2, there were no Korean rebels organizing, and the liberation movement was about 100 people; but none of that mattered because it was my turn in the barrel.

  12. #12
    Covert Mastermind Demi Moderator Secret Master's Avatar
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    First of all, let me just say that the lesson the OP should have learned is never lose a Great War. Regardless of the crisis mechanic, losing a Great War is very, very bad. The corollary to this is never get on the losing side of a Great War. Take prestige hits in a crisis rather than back what will be the losing side. As the Germans might have said about WWI, don't shackle yourself to a corpse (in that case, Austria).

    That being said, I've never had a problem with crises, unless I wasn't prepared for them. Yes, the system is specifically designed to shaft the minors. That's 19th Century diplomacy in the period. If you want more control, you have to become a GP yourself.

    The good news is that when you are a GP, you are on the other side of the table, able to screw other countries left and right. In fact, great fun can be had by manipulating crises to get exactly what you want. It takes some skill, but the AI does respond to the global situation (and your military score) when evaluating crises. I've caused Imperial Russia to accept Cut Down to Size in a crisis before without firing a shot, thanks to good diplomacy and enough military strength to even make the Tsar think twice.

    When a crisis first starts, use your tooltips to see which countries are more likely to support which side. While not an absolute indicator, the tooltip can help you see what direction a crisis may move. Then you wait carefully and only jump in when you know that your military strength, plus the military strength of the other GPs, will enable a victory over the opposing side. (If you have so much military strength compared to everyone else that this doesn't matter, then you can do whatever you want in a crisis.) There is no need to commit to a crisis early, unless you want to "bluff" the AI by swinging a ton of military score to one side of a crisis quickly to make the AI give up.

    You need to keep in mind that when you commit to a crisis, all uncommitted GPs reevaluate their attitude to each side of the crisis (happens every time a GP commits, but usually your commitment makes the most impact). That means if France hates you, and you back the Ottomans over Egypt, even if the French kind of like the Ottomans, they may back Egypt just to spite you. But, if France has already committed to backing the Ottomans, and you also decide to back the Ottomans, France can't switch sides. You end up forcing France to play nice with you during the crisis, and there is nothing they can do about it.

    So, what I do is wait until I see enough commitments in a crisis where my own commitment won't change the attitudes of any remaining GPs, and then commit to a side. It works like a charm. It's even better if your GP ally is also uncommitted; if you commit to one side, they are more likely to join you (again, based on tooltips). So, you screw your rival France by joining the same side of the crisis, then your ally joins the same side of the crisis, and viola! Crisis solved, no prestige loss.

    Obviously, this doesn't work when its your sphere that's involved in the crisis, but in those cases, it is less likely that another GP will back the other side in the first place.

    There is another use of crises, though. If you actually want to start a Great War where you get the chance to dismember opposing states, then you need to back one side in a crisis yourself. Then, you quietly manipulate the situation until your side has overwhelming force. When the opposing side in the crisis offers to accept your demands, you say no and let the crisis turn into a Great War no matter how many times they offer to accept your demands and lose prestige. Don't add crisis war goals, since it's cheaper to add them during the actual war.
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  13. #13
    Lt. General ringhloth's Avatar
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    I like the crisis system. It's a very innovative solution that is very unique to Vicky. It's a huge improvement over what other games have done. The only real change would be that each crisis is formed of a GP+initiator state vs. the receiver state, rather than a GP+initiator vs. GP+receiver. I don't think it'd really change anything but fix some of the problems with the system.

  14. #14
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    In my game Russia resolves the majority of crises peacefully, at the expense of Britain. I kept Germany from forming and Austria never got too powerful, so Russia remained the #1 military throughout the game and was able to repeatedly put down nationalist revolts. I (France) usually side with Russia because I don't want to fight a war. I won't do this next time though.

    The crises system seems fine to me. If you can get a substantial military score lead over your rivals you can usually demand what you want. If not, take the prestige hit.

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