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Thread: Proposal(s) for Victoria 3

  1. #41
    Captain Arthasus's Avatar
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    there is culture map mode (if by that you mean map mode where you can see nationalities of pops living in a province)

  2. #42
    Corporation/monopolies and such are what I want to see in the game the most.

  3. #43
    1) A move=attack, instant-occupy, front-based combat system like in HOI2. You should be able to encircle and destroy your enemies and make war without having to come up against gamey mechanisms designed to slow conquest down. Please, please can we have an end to ping-ponging armies retreating behind the lines of troops attacking them?

    2) Trade-route-based trade. EUIV is actually going to have something like this in it, and I think we can all see how this would make convoy-raiding, domination of the trade-route by establishing coaling stations and so-forth, and (above all) the opening of shorter trade routes by digging canals, much more possible and enjoyable. This does, though, require some additional elements:

    * Trade shouldn't be instantaneous. Instead it should only be complete once the trade has travelled along the relevant route.
    * Countries should have merchant navies capable of carrying the trade. The merchant navy of seller/buyer nations should be a limiting factor to the maximum amount tradable by sea. Sinking trade should thus offend both the seller and the buyer, reduce the amount they can trade, impact war-weariness etc.
    * Perhaps a similar national rolling-stock counter should limit amount tradable by rail. Railways should also carry trade-routes across land, and should be buildable through friendly/sphered countries. The Berlin-Baghdad railway should be the model here.

    3) Great wars should be more cataclysmic. AHD made great strides in this direction, with defeated governments facing revolutions, but more can be done, particularly to stop countries white-peacing out.

    4) Dynamic civil wars. I don't know why this elegant solution hasn't been preferred in the past, but please let's have it in Vicky III. A civil war should take the form of one or more new countries spawning controlling part of the territory of the parent state - no more whack-a-mole please!
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    If a POP works in a RGO that produces a Life Need, it takes it's share of that need in lue of cash.
    The problem with this is it doesn't represent how Life Need resources were often exported from colonial states even in the midst of crises, such as in India in the 1870s. If the price of a resource is higher on the home continent than it is in a colonial state, they should still first sell to the home continent.
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  5. #45
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    I really would like to see rebellions and movements as more threatening than they are now.

    I would like to be one of those that errs on the side of keeping the economics simple, I found Vic1 to have concepts I had no idea on how to manage, but I can survive with Vicky 2.

    Corporations sound good, perhaps also a cabinet like in HOI just for added flavour.

  6. #46
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    What i really would like is a rework of the GP system.

    1. no fix number of GPs If there are no 8 nation strong enough than we should have less GPs and if there are more than more GPs

    2. prestige as a factor of GP status is stupid as it is. I mean the cultural part. You can have hundreds of Mozarts and a thousend Picassos and neither should make you to a GP.

    3. My idea would be a so called military prestige. Being a GP that time ment that the other GP acknowledged you as GP. Japan only became a GP after he beat Russia in 1904-05 because only than was he acknowledged as one by the other GPs. They acknowledged you as GPs mainly on based how strong they thought you are. Its important that its not real strength. Russia was thought of as one of the 2 strongest GPs between the Napoleonic wars and the Crimean war. This was true after the Napoleonic wars but in 1853 Russia has long since fallen behind. How to represent this? The thing i called military prestige comes mostly from battles, occupation and only in a part from real military strength. It should matter whom you fight. Beating a GP should give you a lot of military prestige while beating an unciv only a tiny bit if any. Occupy half of Germany as France and yu should get a lot too. This latter part is important because military prestige should affect the moral of an army. If your soldiers go to war knowing they are part of the strongest army makes moral high while going to war against what they believe is the stongest army should decrease moral. Same with giving up your territory for strategical gain. If you are a german soldier and are pulled back to behind the Rhein without a fight it should decrease your moral, especially if you are from Trier. Through this system this could be represented. And if you constantly win battles and wars your military prestige will keep rising. And sooner or later the others should start thinking that you are too strong and attack you together to protect the status quo. So it could partly replace the badboy system too. Knowing people they would find new exploits in a short time but i still think that this system would represent much better that era than the one in Vic 2.

  7. #47
    Second Lieutenant evilon's Avatar
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    Micro/macro-management's dreams! (depending on what you let the AI control):

    1. Division between rural and urban areas.

    2. Rails going between urban centres. Ie Turin <-> Alessandria, Alessandria <-> Genoa, Alessandria <-> Milan, Milan <-> Brescia.
    That way you can have fabric factory in Turin importing cotton through the docks of Genoa. Same with dye and regular clothes, and in the end you can import silks from Brescia for your luxury clothes.
    You can do this anyways, but having proper infrastructure could give some kind of bonus to your factories, making them more profitable and more able to get their needs.

    3. Factories built in the individual cities. Neighbouring cities craftsmen (ie Novara, Savona) could work in your factories in Turin.

    4. Cities could mostly consist of clergy, artisans, capis, craftsmen, clerks, officers and intellectuals. Possibly also soldiers.

    5. Cities on the coast could have atleast a small Fish RGO. Possibly something (tho less profitable) for inland cities. This would ofc. require farmers/labourers in the cities.

    6. Rural areas could have a set amount of "slots" depending on the size of the province. These will be filled with various RGO's. For Farming, choices would be limited by technology, climate etc. For mining, by the set minerals (if any) for the province. Aristocrats will function as capis. Changing should be costly. Under planned_economy and state_capitalism, the state will control, otherwise you can only influence with tariffs and focus points. Farmers, labourers, clergy, aristocrats, artisans (restricted to local resources) and potentially soldiers. Urbanization will actually be visible! :P

    7. Naval bases in cities only, employing officer pops giving a small contribution to naval leaders, and reduce resource drain on your fleet combined with every ship having a "home-/supply-port"? The bases themselves and the officers should have some sort of upkeep aswell. Also, Naval Academies (expensive shit if/where you build them) in cities will compete for officers, and give naval technology (if there is relevant industry in the state/city) plus leaders for fleets.

    8. Forts, should take up RGO slots in rural areas or factory slots in urban areas, be expensive, and otherwise resemble naval bases in function. Also double as added attrition if built along the coast. For military academies, see their naval counterparts.

    9. Universities. Expensive like naval/military academies. Give various research depending on your local industries ie.; consumer goods give commercial (primary)/industrial(secondary) research, steel type goods give industrial/commercial research, artisans/luxury industry give culture research. Also give research points together with your "other RP income" that you can spend on more directed research. Various schools should ofc. have an effect. Initially, your industry will be a minor effect on your research, but as your country gets heavily industrialized, they take a more prominent role. Factories will also give some minor research even without the universities.

    10. Trade routes and storages. Goods travel, at a cost. See #2! :P And are also stored. Having large and good harbours like Genoa, Venice, Naples or even Tunis, will help your industry get it's needs. So will railways, both internally but also to your neighbours. If you really need that coal in bohemia/silesia, finance a railroad going there!

    11. Merchant fleets, dependant on capis buying up clipper/steamer convoys somehow. I like the idea of corporations mentioned in some earlier posts. Have them "hire" capis, or even clerks, and do research in whatever business they own/run.

    12. State run/subsided armament industry. Atleast dictatorships/monarchies/other relevant regimes, you should have various amount of control of your armament industries. Maybe even let democracies subsidise it!

    13. Import and age HoI3 army control, make supply chains, make templates for armies for various duties etc etc etc.

    14. Make diplomacy matter in other areas. Better relations, better trade. Bad trade, worse relations. You in a SoI that sucks up all your raw materials? Hey presto! Socialist rebels!!

    15. Cabinet like Hoi3, but with more random (after the initial historic) people, slightly dependant on your universities/academies/factories/fleetsize/types etc., so you are affected and would be best make choices by the people you can choose, as with monarchs and monarch points in EU IV.

    16. More crisis, internally and externally. The PO river never floods? No major mining accidents? Droughs?

    17. Espionage... Would be a shame if that wooden fleet in Marseille caught fire, or if those romanians in Hun/Rus/KuK/HAB(well, AUS, but anyways) revolted...

    18. Coalitions!

    19. Trade pacts and embargos, who would sell artillery to their next target for expansion anyways?

    20. Blockades actually stopping goods from arriving... Can't shoot that gun without bullets! (And yes, waterways are the way to get the biggest loads around, at the very least from abroad/colonies. Rails would choke easily if blockaded.)

    21. Setting literacy for states/cultures at start of game. No more illiterate Lombards once they join the growing Sardtalian empire. And literacy efficiency based on primary/(non-)accepted cultures. Clergy helping you learn to read? Maybe it's time to assimilate and get a better job. Your life would be sooo much more awesome in our glorious empire if you embraced our culture, rather than cling to your inferior french ways (Hi Savoie!)

    22. Colonial state -> Full state -> Homeland state. With effects on assimilation rates, education efficiency, wellfare, industry (full state = only basic goods factories, while homeland can build anything). Price for the last jump with +prestige -infamy & recrimary_culture% +++? Albania, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Tunis, Rhóne and Provance are now parts of our extend but glorious homeland. You should move here italians, and bring your magnificent culture!!

    23. Have illiterate be paid less and be less efficient in general, but be a boon for RGO's, and less desirable for factories. Thus have your Africans/Indians/Chinese move from your upgraded colonies to your Homeland looking for work in mines/fields for cheap, forcing your primary pops to migrate to cities. A quick look around in Paris or London will tell you that this happened. Other way around if you colonise europe as Persia/Sokoto/Japan ofc...

    24. If you decide to build factories in someone elses country, some crafties, clerks and capis should look to move there and provide the factory with highly literate and skilled workers, And if corporations? Siphon off some cash back home.

    Aaaand more...
    All examples are from a SAR->ITA educate, assimilate, breed and industrialize perspective as that is what I can relate to in game best! :P

    I generally play with two main objectives:
    1. Be self sufficient.
    2. Assimilate!

    3. Industrial score....
    4. Keep most of the money within the borders until finished products. (ofc, exploit africa etc for resources..)
    5...
    6. Profit!
    Last edited by evilon; 11-04-2013 at 05:04. Reason: Added 4-6 on my objectives!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by FOARP View Post
    1) A move=attack, instant-occupy, front-based combat system like in HOI2. You should be able to encircle and destroy your enemies and make war without having to come up against gamey mechanisms designed to slow conquest down. Please, please can we have an end to ping-ponging armies retreating behind the lines of troops attacking them?
    I would love this. It doesnt have to be as complex as HoI 2, but the military aspect of the game needs to be improved. After all, war IS important in Victoria. Sometimes you lose Your best states because of military defeats. A more realistic land combat system would be great, especially not to allow armies to retreat behind your lines.

  9. #49
    I want Generals and Admirals to have their own political ideology (communist, fascist, reactionary etc etc) similar to brigades. If there is an uprising of an ideology they support they will join it. If they are commanding troops at the time of the uprising they will try to bring the troops they command over to the rebel side, the amount they bring over would be determined by a number of things:

    1. The ideology of the brigades.
    2. The traits of the General (higher traits = more support) but traits that giver higher morale should give an extra bonus.
    3. The Prestige of the General (higher prestige = more support).

    Also, the political ideology of high prestige generals and admirals should have an effect on jingoistic pops. If a higher prestige general supports communism, some jingoistic pops would also start to support communism. Thus if you're trying to spread communist beliefs in your nation you send your communist generals off to fight, they get prestige and more people support communism. It would encourage people to have generals given large armies for purely political reasons.

  10. #50
    I hate video games HabemusZlatan's Avatar
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    Just give me a 1914 and, a 1919 scenario and the possibility to demand just cores and/or coastal provinces and not the whole damn region and I won't care if the game stays the same with fancier graphics.

    Oh, and Ottomans not being everyone's favourite ally no more. In my last game as Serbia they've been allied with ALL the GPs excluding Italy. All of them, sometimes at once.

    That didn't really stop them rebels or the Russians though
    Last edited by HabemusZlatan; 11-04-2013 at 14:32.
    Here be dragons

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donkey Kong View Post
    I would love this. It doesnt have to be as complex as HoI 2, but the military aspect of the game needs to be improved. After all, war IS important in Victoria. Sometimes you lose Your best states because of military defeats. A more realistic land combat system would be great, especially not to allow armies to retreat behind your lines.
    Problem is, before WW1 wars were fought in a totally different manner and using HOI 2/3 system would fail hard to represent it. HOI system was for a time of continuous fight over wide fronts. Victoria ´s time, before machineguns, was still a time of set-piece battles. Not of fronts pushing each other. I´d rather have a system that is good 90% time and sucks 10% time, than one that sucks 90% of the time frame of the game. What can be done is improve the battle screen so that modern battles make more sense.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Beagá View Post
    Problem is, before WW1 wars were fought in a totally different manner and using HOI 2/3 system would fail hard to represent it. HOI system was for a time of continuous fight over wide fronts. Victoria ´s time, before machineguns, was still a time of set-piece battles. Not of fronts pushing each other. I´d rather have a system that is good 90% time and sucks 10% time, than one that sucks 90% of the time frame of the game. What can be done is improve the battle screen so that modern battles make more sense.
    True to a certain extent, but consider the following battles:

    - Sedan, 1870: A battle of encirclement where the Prussians trapped and destroyed the main French army.

    - Königgrätz, 1866: A battle of encirclement where the Prussians trapped and destroyed the Austrian army.

    - Mukden, 1905: A battle along a 70-mile-long front where the Russians escaped encirclement by the Japanese

    Front-to-front, encirclement-style war was happening a while before WW1, you're looking at more of a 50:50 split here, not 90:10. More to the point, HOI2-style game-play is so much more fun that moving a doom-stack into a province to do battle with another doom-stack, and mechanics which are mostly unseen and out of the players control do not add much to game.

    Whatever system is used, you should at least be able to trap and destroy enemy armies just as the Prussians did at Sedan. Currently this is not really possible, but a HOI2-style system would acheive this.
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  13. #53
    I did propose a combat system for V2 a while ago, which includes the transistion from single battles to large frontiers: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post13482999

    To quote myself:

    I don't think the combat system should become as complex as the one in HOI.

    However I'd like to see the "fighting while moving" added in the later game.

    My suggestion would be to remove the "combat width" and add an "combat range in days" modifier from the army techs.

    Combat Range 0 days would mean the fighting starts when the attacking army enters the defended province
    Combat Range 1 day would mean that the fighting starts one day before the attacking army enters the defended province

    This would allow the combat system to change from napoleonic style battles where two armies meet and fight on a small battlefield within a province to a more ww1 style combat system where there are "fluent" frontlines between regions.

    -edit-
    renamed Attack Range to "Combat Range"

    Defending Armies would get support by friendly armies moving into the province they are stationed at by the same mechanism.

    Combat Range 0: only armies in the province defend
    Combat Range 1: armies one day away start defending as well

    -edit2-
    And the minimum combat time should be decreased by tech progression as well
    I don't really remember why I wanted to remove the combat width, but overall I still like the suggestion.

  14. #54
    Captain nett40's Avatar
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    I hope the next Victoria-style game (Victoria 3) will be a true "Heart of Darkness" game:

    First of all, because I think it is good for a Victoria-style game to have only a single Grand Campaign without any bookmarks. However then the timeline shouldn't be too long and that is why I think the best start-date for Heart of Darkness (Victoria 3) should be shortly after the rise of the German Empire and the French Third Republic (between 1871-1876). This would also make North German, South German, N. Italian, S. Italian, Dixie and Yankee pops un-neccesary as all the Great Powers of this era had formed (USA, Italy, Germany, Japan, Britain, France, Russia and Austria-Hungary).

    Thus only American, German and Italian pops would be needed in USA, Germany and Italy. All the cores of minor German and Italian states could also be removed from Victoria 3, leaving behind much stronger countries that aren't in danger of being split up into smaller countries. Following a possible defeat in a Great War.

    Furthermore, The whole scripting conc. the American Civil War, German unification, Italian unification and Japanese westernization could be scrapped. The new primary focus should be the rush for colonial empires, industrial power and world domination by the eight Great Powers, which could be adressed in a much better way with this new start date. The end of the true HoD game should be like in Victoria 2 around 1936.

    The early parts of the Victoria 2 timeline could then be moved to a new game that should fill the gap between the Europa Universalis-series and the HoD-series. The reason for such a new EU-Vic-style game is that I don't think the revolutionary era (1776-1875) is portrayed as good as it could be in the current games. I would like this in-between game to be a mix of EU4 and Victoria 2. With a primitive pop-system and simpler economics.

    The reason I wan't the 4th of July 1776 to be the beginning of this new in-between game. Is that you would have an independent USA from the start with Yankee and Dixie pops fighting Britain. The pops in South America should also have the correct cores and cultures under Spanish rule from the start.

    All the scripting for the American Civil War, German and Italian unification should be moved to this game. But the game should have bookmarks like in Europa Universalis 3. The end-date should be shortly after the unification of Germany in 1871.

    Land and Sea warfare could thus be kept rather simple and focus turned to better portray rebels and revolutions. Ironclads should be the most advanced type of warship buildable from the 1860'ies. However, Two- and Three-deckers would be the main heavy warships throughout this games' timeline.
    Last edited by nett40; 12-04-2013 at 18:36. Reason: correction
    I hope that Paradox one day will extend the timeline of Europa Universalis beyond 1821 (a grand campaign from 1444 to 1871 would be awsome).

  15. #55
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    I think, that there should be a 'bloc' system. Blocs would be unlocked with mass politics.
    Any great power would be able to create a bloc. Then, it would be able to invite other nations to their block, with countries of the same ideology would be more likely to join and countries having a claim on each other (e.g. France and Germany) wouldn't join unless they really had a good reason (like UK has conquered several French and German provinces and they want revenge.) Each bloc would trade tariff-free. Blocs could join together in a war (you would have a vote where all nations would vote whether they want to go to war). After every great war, blocs of all involved parties would be dissolved and all countries (victorious for 3 years, defeated for 10 years) would be unable to join a new war. To prevent abuse, you would be incapable to go to country vs bloc war, only bloc vs bloc, although any war could turn into great war if blocs of both parties vote to help their ally. Bloc system wouldn't override alliance system, which would simulate e.g. Soviet Union helping Germany attack Poland.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Naselus View Post
    First up, I'd ditch buying order on the WM. Everyone buying from WM buys simultaneously.
    But then who gets the goods when demand is greater than supply? If countries want to buy 1000 units of Coal on the WM and only 300 are available, how do we solve that?

  17. #57
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    I hope Paradox makes it so when we conquer a civilized country's land on a different continent, we can choose to make it a colony. Right now we get the weird situation where annexing Libya or Iraq from the Ottomans automatically makes those lands into full states.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by tarpoon View Post
    I did propose a combat system for V2 a while ago, which includes the transistion from single battles to large frontiers: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...1#post13482999

    To quote myself:



    I don't really remember why I wanted to remove the combat width, but overall I still like the suggestion.
    The problem with such an idea is that it's unworkable. If the transition is based on technology, then at some point armies with move=attack and stack-battle will meet - what happens then? If the transition is based on a hard date, then it means an arbitrary transition regardless of conditions at the time.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by FOARP View Post
    The problem with such an idea is that it's unworkable. If the transition is based on technology, then at some point armies with move=attack and stack-battle will meet - what happens then?
    I don't see an unsolvable problem here. Simply let the higher tech level count.

    Image you have a napoleonic style and a WW1 style army fighting each other (lets assume both are about the same size)

    Napoleons attack: the moment the WW1 style army opens fire (due to higher tech) the napoleonic soldiers would fire back
    WW1s attack: the moment the WW1 style army opens fire (due to higher tech) the napoleonic soldiers would fire back

    One could give the Napoleons an extra penality while they fight outside of their "tech range", but they'd be pretty outteched anyway, so that might even be unnecessary.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by FerdinandVeblen View Post
    But then who gets the goods when demand is greater than supply? If countries want to buy 1000 units of Coal on the WM and only 300 are available, how do we solve that?
    Everyone gets it by weight. If I demand 5 and you demand 10, but there's only 10 units available on the WM, you get 6.7 and I get 3.3. If you want to take more than your share, then SOI people for it.
    For every subtle and complicated question, there is a simple and straightforward answer, which is wrong.

    Creator of PDM:PoD for Heart of Darkness: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...ownload-thread
    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Creator of '1792' for March of the Eagles: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...69074-1792-mod

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